Indonesia promises to stem refugee flow
Updated
Indonesia's President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono says he'll work closely with Australia to tackle the influx of migrants.
Mr Yudhoyono and Kevin Rudd shared a telephone conversation on Sunday in which they talked about the dramatic increase in arrivals from countries like Afghanistan, Burma and Sri Lanka. Indonesia has long been a transit country for those hoping to seek asylum in Australia. Sixty-eight Afghan migrants were arrested in Indonesia on Friday as they prepared to depart for Australia, the second group in recent months.
Presenter: Jonanna McCarthy
Speaker: Professor Mary Crock, Professor of Public Law at the University of Sydney
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CROCK: It's something that Australia has to do. The difference is that we're not asking Indonesia to process these asylum seekers for us. By the way, when you talk about influx of migrants, we're actually talking here about people who historically are known to be refugees so I think that's something that has to be put on the table. It's not the same as the Pacific solution. This is a problem that affects the whole region and it's something that I think the Australian Government has to work with countries in the region to solve.
McCARTHY: Well Indonesia, of course, is not a signatory to the UN Refugee Convention, so what level of protection does it offer those who are fleeing persecution?
CROCK: At the moment what's happening is that the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has set up a base in Indonesia and so when people are identified by Indonesia as irregular entrants, they are referred to UNHCR for processing and that's something that started under the previous government, Australian Government, and it's something that's continued. I think what the Australians have to do is to try and encourage Indonesia to become a party to the Convention. At the same time, we have to work together to try and find solutions for these people. Historically, as I said, they are being accepted as refugees. That's a problem in the sense that with refugees you can't send them back and although it's not a party to the Refugee Convention, Indonesia doesn't send these people back and that's an interesting point that has to be made, I think.
McCARTHY: And these 68 Afghan asylum seekers who were arrested on Friday, what's likely to happen to them now?
CROCK: They will have been or they will be, I'm pretty certain, sent to the areas where UNHCR has other asylum seekers and refugees within Indonesia. The difference, I think, between what's happening now and what happened under the previous government is (under) the previous government we paid a lot of money to UNHCR to set up these areas to process people, but then we said to them that the money's been paid on the proviso that we won't take any of these people who you recognise as refugees into Australia. Now, I think what has to happen with the new government is that the whole problem needs to be addressed, which involves both working out whether these people are refugees, using proper procedures by the way, because if you get a poor process where people are not being properly recognised when they are refugees then that's not going to solve the problem. But you also need to look at the resettlement of these people. You can't send them back. There is no country that you can send them to in most cases where they will be safe. The Hazaras who are coming from Afghanistan can't be sent back to Afghanistan because they're refugees. Many of them now can't be sent back to Pakistan either because that country is, in certain areas, is not safe for them either. So you've got a resettlement problem and I think that is what the Australian Government will be talking about very seriously with Indonesia and that's to be welcomed.
McCARTHY: And Mary Crock, you would have seen last week Australia announced a $US2.3 million boost to humanitarian aid for the Rohingya people in Burma and in refugee camps in Bangladesh. Is this part of the solution? Does it make marginalised people less vulnerable to people smuggling?
CROCK: I am in a somewhat curious position of agreeing with everything the government is doing at the moment. We have to look at problems at source, both at the countries they're coming from, the countries they transit through and how they're getting to Australia. I think everybody agrees that the people smugglers have to be put out of business in some way, because it's such an unsafe mode of transport for everybody to get to any country, particularly by boat, and you see that with the Rohingyas who have been picked up at sea as well, with the Tamils, with the Afghans, with the Iraqis and the Iranians who are all taking to boats to come here. So I think that a lot has to be done to try and use a whole variety of mechanisms which includes improving the conditions in other countries where these people are landing in the first instance.
