Indonesia and Australia to combat people smuggling
Updated
Human rights issues have crept into the visit to Australia by Indonesia's President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. The president and Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd are also looking to formalise an agreement to combat people smuggling. The details of that deal \have already been signed off in talks between Indonesian's Foreign Minister, Marty Natelegawa and his Australian counterpart Stephen Smith. Mr Natelegawa says the deal will address people smuggling comprehensively.
Presenter: Sen Lam
Speakers: Marty Natalegawa, Indonesian Foreign Minister
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NATALEGAWA: It's part of that architecture of co-operation between our two countries, both at the ballot level as well as at the regional level, to address people smuggling in a very comprehensive way, addressing both the country of origin, country of transit such as Indonesia as well as destinations such as Australia.
LAM: You and your Australian counterpart, Stephen Smith, yesterday signed off on details of the agreement. Can you tell us what are some of the key points that you think will be effective in deterring people smugglers?
NATALEGAWA: Well, there is a very clear arrangement involving the relevant officials in our respective countries, in terms of how they should proceed in disrupting people smuggling efforts, in dealing with such challenges when they do arise, in terms of how we should be able to process or ascertain the nature of the background of the individuals involved. So it is as I said before part and parcel of that architecture in addressing the problem.
At the same time, there are things that we can do at the national level as well. The Indonesian Government is determined to formally and legally criminalise people smuggling as an activity which was of course notwithstanding part of our tremendous cooperatioin and work on the issue in the past.
LAM: Human rights groups and NGO's have said that care must be taken by Australia to ensure that any cooperation with Indonesia or even a broader regional agreement will have a bearing on asylum seeker issues, that it is carried out in line with human rights standards. Can you give us that guarantee?
NATALEGAWA: Well, Indonesia is doing its level best in terms of facilitating, giving assistance to individuals who are in obvious dire need of assistance and of course it is easy to want to express that we should do more, but, given where we are as a nation, I think we are doing our level best and with the very best of intentions. So I am not particularly attracted to these people who second guess our efforts. We are doing our best. Let's work together on that rather than pointing to our shortcomings.
LAM: Reports from Jakarta overnight, say that Indonesian security forces have reported killed Dumatin, a terrorist suspect. So Indonesian security has obviously made headway to addressing terrorism over the past couple of years. Do you think Australia should downgrade its travel advisory to Indonesia, which after all has been an irritant for Jakarta for sometime?
NATALEGAWA: Obviously, this is an issue of travel advisory. It is obviously part and parcel of any government's responsibility to ensure the safety and security of its national or nationals overseas, including Australia and I am not going to second guess how Australia reach its own conclusion over their direct required level of advisory. But at the same time, obviously, such advisory has a real impact on the flow of people-to-people contact between the two countries, but when the fact is as you have rightly acknowledged, Indonesian Government, Indonesian police in particular have registered particular success in disrupting the terrorist network in Indonesia.
Last night, we heard about possible important developments in Indonesia in disrupting the terrorist network, so we will continue working in the way that we have both the national effort, co-operating with our bilateral with our friends like Australia, but hopefully this kind of successes or progresses would find its manifestation in Australia's travel advisory policies.
LAM: Well, some observers also say that Indonesia has come a long way since the day of Suharto's new order in striving for good governance and transparency, especially the fight against corruption. Do you think human rights should be the next Holy Grail? The US is considering resuming training the TNI's Special Kopassus forces and that's alarmed many rights groups. Do you see Indonesia taking steps towards promoting a more disciplined and professional military, especially in relation to human rights?
NATALEGAWA: Well, I mean our commitment to democracy, commitment to human rights is not a vision, it is not a plan. It is actually a fact of life. Indonesia over the past ten years has transformed itself from what was then an authoritiarian state to what is now a vibrant, third largest democracy in the world, a template to refute the notion that this Islam democracy and modernity cannot go hand in hand. In other words, we can implement and achieve those in a way in respect to some countries policies towards our armed forces, we will take it when it comes. We are not going to force the issue if some countries feel that they are not yet there in terms of comfort level, then so be it.
LAM: And finally Minister, your well known amongst the international media and your a foreign affairs veteran. You were foreign affairs spokesman for a long time and then ambassador to London, the UN, and now foreign minister. How do you think Indonesian-Australian relations have evolved over the years?
NATALEGAWA: It has evolved in a very good way. The relationship was never in a broken state. It has been a vibrant relationship, but I myself, personally as the foreign minister, I believe the best is yet to come. There is plenty of opportunities as yet before us, so I am looking very much in be part of that effort to solidify our relations and not least our people-to-people contacts. I do believe sincerely that Indonesians and Australians we have many things that are uniting us. Of course there are many things that differ among us, but I would like to emphasis where commonalities exist.
LAM: Minister, I hope you have a fruitful visit and thank you for speaking with Connect Asia.
NATALEGAWA: Thank you very much for welcoming us in Australia.
