Kiribati President disappointed at APEC non-commitment on climate
Updated
The President of the Pacific nation of Kiribati has described the lack of commitment shown by world leaders at APEC to a legally binding climate change agreement, as a major disappointment. World Leaders at the APEC meeting in Singapore over the weekend decided not to commit to signing a legally binding carbon emissions target agreement in Copenhagen next month.
The backdown by most of the world's developed countries has signalled next month's climate change negotiations in Copenhagen will achieve little more than a political, non-binding agreement to strive for a drop in emissions.
Kiribati is already facing the affect of climate change, with rising sea levels and concerns over its future viability as a nation state, with its leaders already talking to country's like Australia and New Zealand about the future relocation of the whole population. President Anote Tong says he has not given up on Copenhagen, but he admits the lack of a commitment from APEC countries is a bitter disappointment.
Presenter: Campbell Cooney, Pacific Correspondent
Speaker: Anote Tong, Kiribati President
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COONEY: President Tong welcome to Radio Australia.
TONG: My pleasure indeed.
COONEY: Are you unhappy with what you've seen of the commitments coming out of APEC?
TONG: Well I am disappointed; I had a very distinct feeling at the UN Climate Change Summit in New York in September that there was leadership being made, there was progress being made there, particularly running up to Copenhagen. The current state of negotiations, including the outcome of the APEC and the ASEAN discussions don't appear to be very promising, including the lack of progress on the negotiated text at Barcelona. So yes, indeed, I am disappointed and I'm sure this would be the case for countries like Kiribati who have the most to lose.
COONEY: Were you completely surprised though, there seemed to be lots of indications coming from the developed world well before ASEAN and APEC that there was going to be a weakening of the position?
TONG: I think there's always, there could never be agreement on the detail, I can accept that, but I think there has to be agreement on some issues. Even the deadlock on the discussions at Barcelona there is no doubt in my mind that out of the very thick document surely there must be points of agreement which we can endorse at Copenhagen. And of course those issues that remain unresolved can continue to be addressed as we go on.
COONEY: There's plenty of critics informed and uninformed who are saying that there are signs that Copenhagen will achieve absolutely nothing at all. What's your view on this?
TONG: Well I must not be so pessimistic because I cannot afford to be. And for us there must be agreement and we must convince everybody that we must come away with an agreement, not on everything, I have no doubt that we cannot come away with agreement on everything, but let's not waste our time I think there's too much at stake, particularly for the small vulnerable countries like ours.
COONEY: What happens though if you do go to Copenhagen, I know this is a little bit hypothetical on everybody's part, if you go there a lot of talk and you walk away with nothing?
TONG: I certainly will be going to Copenhagen and I certainly will be trying as much as possible before then to try and talk to fellow leaders to see if we can come away with something. Your question is how would I feel if there was no agreement? I would be extremely disappointed, but I would not give up because we cannot afford to give up, we cannot afford not to have any agreement, even if not at Copenhagen, the day after or whatever. But I think there has to be agreement, there is no choice here.
COONEY: Even if it's just a political agreement I suppose, because what they were talking about and we go back two years, three years, is a legally binding one, well that's clear, that seems less doubtful, but certainly a political one is that going to be good enough?
TONG: I think we must have an agreement in whatever form, but a legally binding one is of course the best we would like to see. But to come away without any form of agreement I think would be so unfortunate, so irresponsible.
COONEY: You were very passionate in talking about the future of climate change and what you hope for Copenhagen when you spoke at the UN General Assembly. What message do you now give to those rich industrialised nations?
TONG: Now I keep saying that it is not just about economic growth, I think we have, I know that there's a bit of sensitivity, particularly given the recent global economic crisis. But it's not just about the economies, it's about survival, and I think it's a challenge for all of us as human beings. Do we have compassion, do we have a conscience, and I think all of these things will be tested at Copenhagen. Does the international system, does it have any credibility? And I think we must come to the party if all of this is to make any sense at all.
COONEY: In the UN General Assembly Ambassador Stuart Beck from Palau representing your country and many others in the Pacific spoke to them, about the fact that actually if nothing is done in Copenhagen it becomes a security risk. Exactly what are we talking about here?
TONG: Well it is a security issue for countries like ours because our very survival is at stake here, and we get quite insulted when countries, certain people are talking about economic growth, and here we are talking about our survival. I think we've got to be real here, we've got to face the realities of what some countries, what some peoples are actually having to go through in response to the climate change as a consequence of the climate change. It is a security issue for us because our survival is on the line.
COONEY: You've spoken certainly with the governments of Australia and New Zealand about the future and if nothing's happened and relocation of your population to those countries. Are they receptable, are they still receptable to that idea sometime in the future?
TONG: Well already there are schemes in place; I've often referred to this, and with New Zealand there are under the Pacific Access Category Scheme there are people migrating to New Zealand on an annual basis under a quota system. That is the beginning of something. I think that is a positive step in one of the models that we're advocating. With Australia we have our young people being trained in Australian institutions to get, to achieve an internationally recognised qualification. This allows them to access the international labour market, including in Australia. So these are models already operating which could be the way forward for us.
COONEY: Ok, you mentioned as you said earlier you are going to Copenhagen and I'm sure many AOSIS members are going to be going as well. Will you be getting your heads together before the meeting to try and come together with a uniform position like you did at the UN General Assembly meeting?
TONG: I think it's very important but not only our heads together but I think we also need to put our heads with those countries that are not coming to the party at the moment. I have spoken to the chairman and I have suggested that to ensure success at Copenhagen maybe it would be a good idea to have a retreat before the formal session so that we can thrash out the issues. So that there can be agreement coming out of Copenhagen.
COONEY: So a retreat involving all leaders who are going to be attending, all leaders from around the world?
TONG: Maybe the problematic ones, I don't know, but we have to discuss the problems with those countries that cannot see their way to making a commitment at this point in time. I believe there has to be a way, so we have to find those.
COONEY: At APEC Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd seemed to be making it clear that it's beyond the officials now, it's down to the leaders to get their heads together, they are the only ones who can work together to make something happen. You'd agree with that statement?
TONG: I agree very much, I think the problem; I think the ball is at the political stage and I think the leaders they have to demonstrate leadership here. This was raised during the discussions in New York and it was clear that it was likely that there would be a stalemate at the official's level. And I think it has to be whatever progress we make next has to be done by the leaders themselves. And so this is where it probably belongs, but I believe also that there may need to be some work done before that because some drafting has to be done I believe to try and pull out the basic fundamental elements of what is being discussed at the official level, or a document which leaders can see their way through and agreeing at Copenhagen.
COONEY: President Tong thank you for your time.
TONG: You're very welcome indeed.
