No details on changes to Norfolk-Australia relationship

Updated October 31, 2008 15:30:44

The cabinet of Norfolk Island has met an Australian Cabinet Minister who wants to change the relationship between the island territory and the Australian government. Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus held talks with the Norfolk Island cabinet after labelling the island, which lies between New Zealand and New Caledonia, a potential failed state. Both he and Norfolk island's Chief Minister, André Nobbs, are refusing to reveal the details of the discussions.

presenter: Bruce Hill
speakers: Norfolk Island's Chief Minister, André Nobbs: Australia's Home Affairs Minister, Bob Debus

BRUCE HILL: Norfolk Island is home to the Norfolk-Pitcairn people, the descendants of the sailors who staged the famous mutiny on the Bounty, and their Tahitian wives. They are an Anglo-Polynesian people who have their own dialect and strongly independent Pacific identity. They also have their own flag and send a team to the South Pacific Games. Their semi-independent political status has led to past differences with the Australian Federal Government, which administers the island. And recently, Home Affairs Minister Bob Debus hinted that big changes to the relationship might be in the pipeline. So far he's declined to spell out what those changes might be.

BOB DEBUS: The original Norfolk Island Act of 1979 made an assumption that the island would be able to essentially raise its own revenue. This was seen as being part of the independence of Norfolk Island. But since that time, and particularly in more recent years, it's been clear enough that the island can't raise all the revenue it needs for its infrastructure investments, for the systems of health and education and welfare that it must run.

BRUCE HILL: What kind of changes are you looking at? I mean, at the moment, people on Norfolk don't pay tax. Are you looking at changing that in particular?

BOB DEBUS: Of course we don't have any proposals about the renovations should happen, and the framework for such an agreement is just a little way off. It's obvious that we need to have discussions in order to find the exact changes that will be most effective.

BRUCE HILL: So, I asked about whether they were going to have to pay tax. So, is the answer yes or no?

BOB DEBUS: That is an indication that the matter is under close discussion.

BRUCE HILL: What's the sense you're getting of how the Norfolk-Pitcairn people feel about this? You sometimes get the impression that they're worried that Canberra simply wants to swallow them up and they get quite obstreperous about this. These are people, after all, who are descended from the Bounty mutineers. They're not likely to...

BOB DEBUS: Yes, and we don't want them having a mutiny again. What I'm interested in is getting an efficient and sensible form of government to provide, to ensure that's its population has a reasonable standard of living.

BRUCE HILL: Norfolk Island's Chief Minister, Andre Nobbs, also declined to give any specific information about what possible changes to the relationship were discussed at the meeting with Mr Debus. But he strongly disagrees with the Minister's comment about the island potentially becoming a failed state.

ANDRE NOBBS, CHIEF MINISTER, NORFOLK ISLAND: The easy answer to that is that, no, we're not a failed state. We've funded our own programs, and a huge array of programs.

BRUCE HILL: What are the feelings among the Norfolk people about this kind of change? I mean, you are the descendants of the Bounty Mutiny. The Minister suggested that he didn't want to make you so upset that you might stage another mutiny.

ANDRE NOBBS: (Laughs) I would say that the general feeling is "Oh, here we go again." Just about on a biyearly basis, we're challenged in some form or another, and to see those inquiries coming around over and over is very disheartening for people over here.

BRUCE HILL: Can you continue indefinitely having a foot in both camps, or will you one day have to decide, "Look, we're just part of Australia, we're just a shire council of Australia and that's it," or, I don't know, stage another mutiny and go independent. I mean, Niue is a country, Nauru is a country; Norfolk's probably better off than some of them.

ANDRE NOBBS: (Laughs) Oh, well, that may be something that might be thrown around by various people, I'd imagine, at various times. But we are fiercely protective of the fact that we are Pacific Islanders. But, at the same time, we also recognise our links not just with Australia - Australia's probably one of our strongest links, in that we are an external territory under Australia. So, I don't think it's necessarily worked to our detriment to an external territory, at all. I think there just probably needs to be a bit of tuning up in terms of legislation and that balance, I suppose.